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okay you know: i am confused and need some wisdom.
see my secular humanist response below.edited by - amazing on 24 july 2002 19:44:40.
short covering was no doubt a part of yesterdays rally, but to say that the money managers could manipulate the market so severely as to produce the second biggest dow gain in history, is simply nonsense.
The big hedge funds and others institutions definitely do have the power to manipulate the markets, and they do it all the time. You sound like one of those dummies on MSNBC spouting gibberish& about "forming a bottom."LOL /You Know
i don't have a clue how a computer works.
i just turn it on and point and click and i am able to do what i need to do, unless of course something goes wrong, or in the worst case scenario if my little machine experiences the dreaded blue-screen crash, then i am really in a mess.
that is the way the financial system is for most people.
madman writes
You say you know every trick in the apostate's book, but I still can't figure out how you determine who is an apostate.
That's not suprising.
If one who points out flaws in the organization is an apostate, then you are certainly one, too.
You are an idiot if you can't figure it out. No one should be under the impression that the Watchtower Society is flawless. Apostates are those who would capitalize upon errors, whether real of presumed, in order to justify their own defection and persuade others to abandon their faith.
And, in some cases, they have been disfellowshipped for doing so. Is that the difference? They are apostates because they got caught and you haven't yet?
You are apostates becuase you are a member of the modern day sect of Nicolaus, you are just too stupid to realize where you stand, that's all.
There's a perfect example of the propagandist's art: Construct a lie, then frame its presentation in such a way as to presume that anyone disagreeing with it is a liar.
Like I said, You can't fool me. This board tesifies to the fact that you are mere immoral dogs and proud of it. I speak the truth in that regard. / You Know
peter once wrote concerning paul's writings, saying: "in them, however, are some things hard to understand" that being the case, it is understandable why jehovah opened his long-running dialogue with israel, through isaiah, by saying: "my own people have not behaved understandingly.
" further, in that 1st chapter, at verse 10, jehovah addresses the leaders of his people saying: "hear the word of jehovah, you dictators of sodom.
give ear to the law of our god, you people of gomorrah.
SIMIWITNESS
You presume that you are correct as it applies to the nature of God (Trinity vs. Non-Trinity). While I do not profess to understand or know the absolute answer to that question, I can say that I have heard BIBLICAL arguments on both sides that were very convincing. The same applies to the covenent you speak of.
That is no presumption. The Bible doesn't teach that God is at one and the same time a trinity and also not a trinity. Just because some clever men are able to twist the scriptures so as to decieve people as to God's identity is only proof of the Devil's existence. The trinity is a fraud and any competent and honest Bible teacher can easily debunk it. / You Know
the dilemma facing apostate jehovahs witnesses, or apostate dubs, as i have dubbed them, (no pun intended) is the very fact of their seeming success.
one of the great ironies of the apostate movement, that presumptuously boasts of "know the truth about the truth," is that apostates themselves are bound by the watchtower's own interpretive shortcomings, and hence are massively ignorant of jehovahs judicial decisions regarding his organization.
in that the presumption in operation is that if enough scandal and error can be brought to light regarding the governing body, the watchtower society's teachings, as well as individual jehovah's witnesses, then that somehow means that jehovah's witnesses have no connection with jehovah god.
SIMIWITNESS
In my estimation, that is a personal attack, attempting to discredit me in the face of others. (I do not care to discuss this specific issue further, as it serves no real pourpose).
It was arhetorical question similar to Jesus asking, 'have you never read.'
Not sure there is a real difference between the two Bible definitions, and certainly no real difference than the one I offered from websters. "evident demonstration of realities not beheld" is not, of itself, evidence of them.
Seeing what cannot be seen is evidence of them. But, for a faihtless person who cannot see the unseen, the evidence seen by others is not enough for the them, obviously.
However, having faith that something is so, does not make it so.
That's not true. Moses was credited by God for having seen the invisible with his faith. Again, from the standpoint of the one with faith seeing the invisible and acting accordingly is in itself evidence of the power of unseen realities. / You Know
peter once wrote concerning paul's writings, saying: "in them, however, are some things hard to understand" that being the case, it is understandable why jehovah opened his long-running dialogue with israel, through isaiah, by saying: "my own people have not behaved understandingly.
" further, in that 1st chapter, at verse 10, jehovah addresses the leaders of his people saying: "hear the word of jehovah, you dictators of sodom.
give ear to the law of our god, you people of gomorrah.
SIMIWITNESS says
Here we go again, please state the "basis" for that claim.
The basis for having a relationship with God is very simple, a person has to know something about God. That rules out any and all religions that claim that Christ is God, or other such Trinitarian nonsensical double-talk, which is pretty much all of Christendom. Also, primarily, the basis for a relationship is the fact that anointed Christians are in a covenant with Jehovah. That is why God had dealings with the Jews in the first place because they were in a covenant relationship. Anointed Christians are likewise ina covenant relationship with God, they are aware of their obligations toward God by virtue of being in that relationship. One should reasonably expect that those in a covenant with God would be aware of their relationship to him. Christendom though is basically cluless about the new covenant and what it entails, which betrays them as having no basis for their claims. / You Know
peter once wrote concerning paul's writings, saying: "in them, however, are some things hard to understand" that being the case, it is understandable why jehovah opened his long-running dialogue with israel, through isaiah, by saying: "my own people have not behaved understandingly.
" further, in that 1st chapter, at verse 10, jehovah addresses the leaders of his people saying: "hear the word of jehovah, you dictators of sodom.
give ear to the law of our god, you people of gomorrah.
BLUE SAPHIRE says
Everything You Know says here can be equally applied to the Catholic Church. There is no reason that it should be applied to a man-made organization that came on the scene 1900 years after Christ established his congregation.
Ironically the Watchtower applies most of Jehovah's rebuke to Christendom and the Catholic church also, but in so doing they inadvertantly deny that Jehovah is their God, in that the purpose of God's rebuke and counsel is to restore a good relation with himself, as it says, "let us set things straight between us." But, the truth is that Christendom has no basis for claiming any sort of relationship with God, but we do. Admittedly, my interpretation is rather revolutionary from the standpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses, but in light of the immorality and injustice related to the covering over of child abuse in our organization, the prophecy of Isaiah certainly sanctifies Jehovah in that it reveals his own disgust and outrage over how his spiritual nation has allowed themselves to become corrupt and has failed to protect the orphans and widows from predators.
One amusing observation: The hypocrisy of my apostate opponents is evident in that apostates claim to be the only ones to be able to think for themselves, and that all of Jehovah's Witnesses have been brainwashed by the Watchtower Society. And, yet, when presented with a well-thought out scriptural explanation that deals with their accusation against us, and yet is not what the Watchtower teaches, the retort is--- 'The Watchtower doesn't say that.YK is an apostate.' LOL
/ You Know
peter once wrote concerning paul's writings, saying: "in them, however, are some things hard to understand" that being the case, it is understandable why jehovah opened his long-running dialogue with israel, through isaiah, by saying: "my own people have not behaved understandingly.
" further, in that 1st chapter, at verse 10, jehovah addresses the leaders of his people saying: "hear the word of jehovah, you dictators of sodom.
give ear to the law of our god, you people of gomorrah.
Chelbie
Why did you disagree with me when I was quoting you?
You didn't quote me. You attached your own spin on things, which is fine, but don't say that you were quoting me because you weren't.
Does the fact that Bill Bowen, Barbara Anderson, her husband and others have taken a stand for the cause of Silentlambs and as a result been ousted from the WTS mean that they will not be spared during Armageddon?
No, not necessarily. The judgment of each individual will be determined by how they respond during the holocaust, for lack of a better term to signify what we are facing. The irony is that those very "dictators of Sodom" that Jehovah confronts at the beginning of Isaiah are some of the very same individuals whom Jehovah later describes as "big trees of righteousness" at Isaiah 61:3. Didn't Jesus say that the judgment of the sheep and goats will be determined by how they treat his brothers during their hardship? Well, Isaiah 61:3 refers to those who are mourning over Zion. That means that rather than forsaking Jehovah's organization altogether Jehovah ultimately rewards those who endure his discipline and loyally stick with those who introduced us to Jehovah in the first place. As they say in Dixie, 'you gotta dance with the one that brung ya.' That's how it's going to go down, I think.
So, while it will be difficult for those who have stumbled to regain their footing, once it is evident to them that Jehovah has intervened to set things straight, as in the case of the "dictators of Sodom," then, if they truely love Jehovah, they will find reason to support Christ's chastened brothers.
Individuals from the nation of israel who accepted Jesus were spared the calamity of 70 CE, So did the individuals who left Sodom(Lot and his daughters) So would not that mean that if you were to decide to DA yourself on the basis of all the corruption that you see, you will be spared as well?
No / You Know
peter once wrote concerning paul's writings, saying: "in them, however, are some things hard to understand" that being the case, it is understandable why jehovah opened his long-running dialogue with israel, through isaiah, by saying: "my own people have not behaved understandingly.
" further, in that 1st chapter, at verse 10, jehovah addresses the leaders of his people saying: "hear the word of jehovah, you dictators of sodom.
give ear to the law of our god, you people of gomorrah.
Hi YouKnow
Hi Chelbie
Let me see if I understand you. The nation of Israel with the Pharisees leading them was considered to be false and unacceptable to Jah right up until the time that they rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Consequently the nation came to ruin and was made desolate in about 70 CE.
So far, so good.
OK, then: disaproved nation of Israel =Sodom=Governing Body and their corrupt leadership
BZZZZZ. Wrong. You missed the point. Those "dictators of Sodom" that Jehovah addressed himself to were apparently quite redeemable. That's why God was most desirous of setting things straight between him and his astranged people. In the case of the pharisees they had no basis for claiming any sort of relationship with God. As Jesus said, they "seated THEMSELVES in the seat of Moses." There was no provision in the Mosaic Law for a class of self-exalted pharisees. Jehovah gave the authority to teach the people to the priests. But, anyway, go on.
did not Jesus say, "When you see the disgusting thing that causes desolation...let those in Judea begin fleeing..." So true Christians, in order to preserve their life had to get out and leave the city.
Yes, that's right, that's what Jesus said. Absolutely.
Fast forward to our day, those of us who have left the WTS (the recruiting of members, currupt policies, etc.) are we not in effect doing what Jesus commanded?
How so? Jesus said that his anointed followers would know when to flee based upon their ability to discern the disgusting thing as revealed in the vision of Daniel. What exactly to you imagine the disgusting thing is that is standing in the holy place?
Because they do not want to be "sharer in the sins" of the Sociey, many have chosen to DA themselves. They have faith that God will find them approved because they took no part in the wrongdoings and criminally negligent policies of the Society. Those who knowingly stay would actually be lacking faith that upon leaving they are still approved by God.
That's false reasoning. When the disgusting thing stands where it ought not we will be in the thick of a whole world of mess.
My question is: Do you, Bobby have faith in Jehovah , that you will be approved by God if you stand up for what is right and join Joe and Barbara Anderson and others?
No / You Know
Edited by - You Know on 24 July 2002 21:5:43
peter once wrote concerning paul's writings, saying: "in them, however, are some things hard to understand" that being the case, it is understandable why jehovah opened his long-running dialogue with israel, through isaiah, by saying: "my own people have not behaved understandingly.
" further, in that 1st chapter, at verse 10, jehovah addresses the leaders of his people saying: "hear the word of jehovah, you dictators of sodom.
give ear to the law of our god, you people of gomorrah.
FRED HALL asks YK
Do you think the accusations against the WTS are sound minded with Jehovah and Jesus Christ? Because those accusing our brothers for uncleaness are not lovers of Jehovah.
Some of the accusations of apostates are groundless, and some have some merit. But, apostates aren't the only ones bringing accusations against us. Many who have legitimate reasons to complain are those who have been victimized by child abuse by individuals who were and are Jehovah's Witnesses---so called.
Plus, I think it is total stupid to compare Sodom and Gomorrah with our brothers who believe in the ransom of Christ. Who he wash away our sins by his blood.
I didn't make that comparison. Most brothers are moral, but tens of thousands are not. From Jehovah's stanpoint one is too many. He can't tolerate any sort of wickedness among those who bear his name. And, worse, some of Jehovah's Witnesses are sexual predators who have abused our childeren and gone unpunished. What must God think of that? I can tell you Fred that he is disgusted. So, Jehovah was addressing those "dictators" who preside over the nation because they have not done justice to those who have been victimized by immorality. Before any forgivness can take place, first there has to be a confession, isn't that right? So, until the "dictators of Sodom" come clean with Jehovah there can be no forgivness granted them by Jehovah God. But, the fact that Jehovah is even willing to grant forgiveness indicates that those whom he is addressing as the "dictators of Sodom" are in fact the leaders of his spiritual nation. / You know
Edited by - You Know on 24 July 2002 18:40:9
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okay you know: i am confused and need some wisdom.
see my secular humanist response below.edited by - amazing on 24 july 2002 19:44:40.
Well, I haven't heard about the asteroid. That's interesting, I guess. But, the deal with the financial system meltdown obviously has more immediate implications for the future of the planet. The way the stock markets goes, it is a fight to the death between the bulls and the bears. There are massive short positions that have been built up in recent weeks, but the bullish investors still have access to several trillion dollars of money market funds that are parked on the sidelines, as they say in the business. So, what happens is that the bulls with deep pockets dump a few billion dollars into the markets in order to spook the bears into covering their short positions, which means that they have to buy the stock that they had previous sold short by borrowing shares and selling them, which in turn drives up the share prices and the hope is that they can jump start some kind of rally before the whole thing simply collapses. The markets have really been backed up to the very edge of the abyss, so, yeah, we can expect some furious attempts to rally the markets and lure the suckers back in so they can do it over again.
I noticed that they really knocked gold down yesterday and today. I had heard some time ago that the $330 an once price was the critical level where some of the big bullion banks like Goldman Sachs would get blown out of the water, so apparently some of the banks are desperately selling into the gold rally to suppress the price until they can unwind their shorts on gold. Like I said, things are starting to get interesting. / You Know
